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	<title>Comments on: Citizendium &#8211; A study in momentum killing</title>
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	<link>http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/</link>
	<description>Ideas on interconnections, identity, and information from all sides.</description>
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		<title>By: Terrell Russell: This Old Network : Wikipedia is good enough, good grief</title>
		<link>http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/comment-page-1/#comment-33825</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrell Russell: This Old Network : Wikipedia is good enough, good grief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/#comment-33825</guid>
		<description>[...] beginning to sound more and more desperate. The growing, but largely irrelevant Citizendium project is still too top-heavy with administrative overhead and will continue to be an also-ran to any discussion around human stores of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] beginning to sound more and more desperate. The growing, but largely irrelevant Citizendium project is still too top-heavy with administrative overhead and will continue to be an also-ran to any discussion around human stores of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Terrell Russell</title>
		<link>http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrell Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I don&#039;t think there is a single answer.  I&#039;ve tried for years to work with mail&lt;-&gt;forum bridge software and I&#039;ve always come away feeling shortchanged.  It&#039;s too hard and the benefits of a mailing list are somewhat lost in the forum format.  The opposite effect also holds - the benefits of divided topical conversation are lost on a mailing list, in large part.

I feel strongly that a new group (Citizendium included), still feeling out its own environment and relevance - as well as the edges of its own reach - should have a single place of discussion.  A small organization needs a water cooler.  It needs a place where a passing comment drives a whole new discussion and where people&#039;s names and personalities begin to have contextual relevance.   A mailing list is this tool - if a real physical meeting place is not possible.

In a new forum with no defined community, it is much harder to foster a sense of flow.  People are not on the same page and this splinters discussion - nevermind the lack of &quot;whoever&#039;s paying attention&quot; serendipity, which itself is no small player when brainstorming new ideas - since attention in this sense is defined to be everyone on the mailing list and not just those hanging out in a particular sub-forum.

I think that after there are some social norms, some sense of who the group is and what it is they&#039;re about, there is a place for topical, more divided discussion - ala forum software.  Once the group has a working defintion of the big picture - splintering and detail work can happen very functionally.  In fact, it&#039;s *better* than having discussions where everyone is involved.  This is why organizations have subcommittees.  I feel like the online forum is an analog to committee work - where the details happen.

Until then, I think moving to an online forum is premature and ill-fated.  In my opinion, this leap was made way too early and without merit.

The insistence of putting in a moderation limit is a different point altogether, but one I also find surprising and pushing against the very idea of an open discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there is a single answer.  I&#8217;ve tried for years to work with mail< ->forum bridge software and I&#8217;ve always come away feeling shortchanged.  It&#8217;s too hard and the benefits of a mailing list are somewhat lost in the forum format.  The opposite effect also holds &#8211; the benefits of divided topical conversation are lost on a mailing list, in large part.</p>
<p>I feel strongly that a new group (Citizendium included), still feeling out its own environment and relevance &#8211; as well as the edges of its own reach &#8211; should have a single place of discussion.  A small organization needs a water cooler.  It needs a place where a passing comment drives a whole new discussion and where people&#8217;s names and personalities begin to have contextual relevance.   A mailing list is this tool &#8211; if a real physical meeting place is not possible.</p>
<p>In a new forum with no defined community, it is much harder to foster a sense of flow.  People are not on the same page and this splinters discussion &#8211; nevermind the lack of &#8220;whoever&#8217;s paying attention&#8221; serendipity, which itself is no small player when brainstorming new ideas &#8211; since attention in this sense is defined to be everyone on the mailing list and not just those hanging out in a particular sub-forum.</p>
<p>I think that after there are some social norms, some sense of who the group is and what it is they&#8217;re about, there is a place for topical, more divided discussion &#8211; ala forum software.  Once the group has a working defintion of the big picture &#8211; splintering and detail work can happen very functionally.  In fact, it&#8217;s *better* than having discussions where everyone is involved.  This is why organizations have subcommittees.  I feel like the online forum is an analog to committee work &#8211; where the details happen.</p>
<p>Until then, I think moving to an online forum is premature and ill-fated.  In my opinion, this leap was made way too early and without merit.</p>
<p>The insistence of putting in a moderation limit is a different point altogether, but one I also find surprising and pushing against the very idea of an open discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Johnson</title>
		<link>http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/comment-page-1/#comment-303</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblog.terrellrussell.com/2006/10/citizendium-a-study-in-momentum-killing/#comment-303</guid>
		<description>Hi Terrell,

Interesting (and worthwhile) post. I think the problem of how to split up a discussion between a mailing list and a forum is a hard one- if you have any suggestions, I&#039;d encourage you to post them here, at my blog, or on the mailing list in question. :)

Cheers,
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Terrell,</p>
<p>Interesting (and worthwhile) post. I think the problem of how to split up a discussion between a mailing list and a forum is a hard one- if you have any suggestions, I&#8217;d encourage you to post them here, at my blog, or on the mailing list in question. :)</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Mike</p>
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